I listened to a LOT of Hip-Hop between 1987-1992 which is considered the "golden era" of that scene. This was before most major labels figured out the formula and saturated the music market with all the fake commercial gangster rap that still makes more money than anything else to this day.

Back then it wasn't about misogyny and violence. There were many artists out there who were very innovative - The Beastie Boys were the best of the bunch. You had artist's like Public Enemy, The Jungle Brothers, Gang Starr, Paris, The Pharcyde, Boogie Down Productions. You also had artist's like Ice-T who was like a Hip-Hop version of pulp writer Iceberg Slim [it's also how he chose his name]. His lyrics and stories were hilarious. He's collaborated with Jello Biafra, Slayer and Perry Farrell. If you ever get the chance, check him and Jello Biafra out on The Oprah Winfrey Show. There were some other great lyricists like Big Daddy Kane [who did a great track with Rudy Ray Moore], Guru and Rakim.

All of these artists were experimenting and forming something that was completely new and fresh at the time. Hip-Hop was considered the "Punk Music" of the 1980's due to it's DIY ethic. You have to remember how bad the music scene was in the 1980's...

So I can honestly say Hip-Hop has had a very positive influence on me, personally. It opened my eyes and ears because of it's use of sampling other music and i'd also say that in a weird way it's influenced me as a podcaster. Hip-Hop artists would sample James Brown and AC/DC... and sometimes in the same song. It showed me how you can mix things up, come up with something and make it work. Heck, I even snuck in a Prince Paul [producer of De La Soul and DJ from Stetsasonic] track on one of my shows and I doubt anyone even noticed.

I think the problem is that most people who criticise Hip-Hop probably never got to listen to the real hardcore underground stuff. They're really talking about the stuff that dominates the charts. Eminem, Dr. Dre, etc. It's like someone slagging off Garage because they've heard The Hives and Jet.

By the way, I went to a Bad Brains gig once and their support act was a Hip-Hop group called The Goats. Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five supported The Clash. PWEI supported Public Enemy when I saw them. I guess everything's linked when you think about it.

Oh, and check out The Beastie Boys "Paul's Boutique" album, produced by The Dust Brothers who did the Fight Club Soundtrack.

Curious to know what people here think about hip hop - was listening to the ipod on shuffle the other day and went from Ty Segall to early Beastie Boys.  And thought, this could actually be a legit transition on certain garage punk podcasts.  I recall hearing or reading that Beastie Boy only wanted to imitate Bad Brains and be a punk band at first, but just did a really poor job of that and their rap/hip hop influences seeped through more.  Still, in terms of lo-fi, youth angriness & energy, and influences, would anyone draw any lines connecting them to punk/garage?  Tough Guy, Whatcha Want, etc. (I think their later stuff w a social agenda totally sucks, talking about early stuff-mid 90s).  Also Public Enemy.  On the other hand there are plenty of rappers who've used samples from punk songs and even tried to cut a few.  And then there's Dee Dee Ramone's rap album of course...

But hip hop in general - new or old school, did you ever listen to it?  Love it?  Hate it?  Oblivious to it?  Any possible links to punk?

Where does Screaming Jay Hawkins go?

Gonna answer each section separatly as i'm pretty anal about filing stuff as i want to be able to find it quick...especially after some brews... Where to alphabetically file certain bands/artists in relation to the others. If it's a band that begins with a number, for example, does it go at the *beginning* of the alphabet (in front of the A's), or do you file it by how the number would be spelled? I always file number bands, ie 63 Monroe, as if the number is a letter...ie sixty three goes right before Skeletons... I always filed bands like Davie Allan & the Arrows under A (for Allan), since it was clearly he and then his band. Mark & the Spies goes under M, even though it's his first name, because his last name isn't part of the band name. Those were easy. But then you have the case of band names that are also musician names: The Bobby Fuller Four, for example. Bobby Fuller also released some stuff before he named his band the Bobby Fuller Four, so I file that stuff under F for Fuller. But do you file the Bobby Fuller Four's stuff under B then, because it's a band name? What about other band names that also include the artist name? The Jon Spencer Blues Explosion or Jeffrey Novak One Man Band... JSBX under J or S? JNOMB under J or N? I do what you do Kopper...Allan for any Davie Allan stuff, F for any Bobby Fuller stuff, never B as i'd never find it. JSBE i file under Spencer, seems logical....JNOMB under N. Also, what about a band name that actually contains two names? The King Khan & BBQ Show, for example. I realize this one would just go under "K" because both "King" and "Khan" begin with "K," but do you file it by "King" or "Khan"? In other words, would it go before or after your Kingsmen, Kinks, and Kiss albums? Now for King Khan i had to go and check...LOL...so b4 Kingsmen, Kinks and Kiss LP's...Dunno why i file him by King, but whenever i speak about him, or to him, i always refer to him as King Khan even though that isn't his real name. Alice Cooper was the name of the band as well as the man. Go under "A" or "C"? Jethro Tull was a band name, not a person. It goes under J. Alice Cooper goes under C in my filing system, although A makes as much sense....Jethro Tull filed in the to get rid of milk crate... Also, just like you wouldn't file The Rolling Stones under "T" for "The," bands that begin with the word "Thee" would also not go under "T"... Thee Fine Lines go in the F's, Thee Mighty Caesars in the M's, and Thee Crucials under C. The Rolling Stones is filed under R for Rolling....but Thee Fine Lines dunno, still have to file that one as i got it recently. Thee Mighty Caesars i've got in the M's, right beside Milkshakes, which in this case makes a lot of sense with all of the incest between those 2 bands...but bands starting with Thee usually get filed by the name after Thee in my collection. To add to this, how do you people file your comps? I have literally thousands of comps.... Here's what i do, dunno if it's logical to you guys or not....all of my 60's comps are together. I put any series together, ie Pebbles, Back From The Grave etc, others i file by region, ie Texas or by country, ie Canada. This way i can usually find a 60's comp. All of my blues comps are together, again any series is together and rest by style or area. Trash comps are filed by any series and then by genre, ie surf or 50's. Rockabilly comps by series and then by region. 70's comps by series and then region, same with modern comps....but it ain't easy to find some comps as my logic deviates at times...LOL... Then there's the matter of 7" records.....my filing system is all of my US garage stuff is alphabetic. The exception to the ruler being that some labels i have all filed together...ie Get Hip, Dionysus, Dog Meat etc...Then each country has it's own alphabetic filing.....and that's only the garage records...Original 60's singles are filed by country alphabetically....all of my 7" flexis are together and man this is getting out of hand, better not let my wife read this...LOL...maybe i have a problem....

Anyone who has ever worked at a record store (or who has just been really anal about where they file their own albums and CDs on the shelves) knows this dilemma: Where to alphabetically file certain bands/artists in relation to the others. If it's a band that begins with a number, for example, does it go at the *beginning* of the alphabet (in front of the A's), or do you file it by how the number would be spelled?

Hey would that be the AC-4tv? Man, that's a tempting little amp. It looks perfect for that early Kinks sound. I've heard it's kind of dark. What do you guys think? Johnny Danger said:

We just started this adventure, still learning to play. So the setup is with stuff that is cheap, we could source and doesn't take up much room - whilst trying to be true to old garage.

Me: Danelectro Deadon? Reissue Baritone --> BYOC Leeds Fuzz (superfuzz clone) --> zoom g2 (surprisingly good reverbs and delays in cheap box) --> Vox Ac10tv ??? (tiny little valve amp)
Vocals --> SM58 --> Behringer Analog Delay (pretty much the only piece of gear Basterdringer make that sounds awesome) --> Boss Bass Overdrive

Mah Missus: Cocktail drum kit. Vocals into a Sennheiser sometin.

The kitchen has proven to be the best sounding room to practice in. So I guess we're kitchen punks.

We just started this adventure, still learning to play. So the setup is with stuff that is cheap, we could source and doesn't take up much room - whilst trying to be true to old garage.

Me: Danelectro Deadon? Reissue Baritone --> BYOC Leeds Fuzz (superfuzz clone) --> zoom g2 (surprisingly good reverbs and delays in cheap box) --> Vox Ac10tv ??? (tiny little valve amp)
Vocals --> SM58 --> Behringer Analog Delay (pretty much the only piece of gear Basterdringer make that sounds awesome) --> Boss Bass Overdrive

Mah Missus: Cocktail drum kit. Vocals into a Sennheiser sometin.

The kitchen has proven to be the best sounding room to practice in. So I guess we're kitchen punks.

There's a very good/interesting interview with Pete in Misty Lane #19 where he tells his side of the story... And yes, The Kinks lineup with Pete on bass was certainly my fave version of the band.

This version of the band has always been my favorite, actually the only one I liked. Having shot kidneys does not sound like a happy life at all.

What exactly is no-wave? I mean I know all labels are vague, flexible, and sometimes ubiquitously meaningless, but I've heard no-wave a lot and never really had any idea or had any bands come into my head. Bands? Time period? Also you find Ty Segall to be dark? I'd have to agree with whoever said he's a more positive, well-adjusted version of Jay Reatard.....happy go lucky west coast surfer + psycho garage rocker kopper said:

I still listen to Bauhaus now and then. It's funny... the Dirtbombs' version of "Kung Fu" (where they basically incorporate "Bela Lugosi's Dead" into a cover of Curtis Mayfield's classic soul number) actually got me listening to them again when Ultraglide in Black came out in 2001. Listened to that album right after it came out almost non-stop while driving to NYC just a month after 9/11 for Cavestomp. CLICK HERE to listen. I'd probably avoided Bauhaus since the mid-'80s before then. Tones on Tail, Lords of the New Church, Southern Death Cult, etc. I like Joy Division a lot, too. I remember having the "Black Planet" album by Sisters of Mercy back then, too, but I just can't listen to that stuff anymore without laughing.

I guess the Damned could be considered goth punk, right? Still listen to them, although I've never been too crazy of their post-Strawberries stuff. Try Phantasmagoria, though. And once in a while I'll still listen to the Misfits, especially around Halloween (although I still prefer the Cramps). Do you like the Cramps? Not "goth" but they do sing about dead stuff, zombies, and whatnot. Kinda spooky! And the Mummies, haha! ;)

But seriously, here are some bands you should seek out. The following aren't typically considered "goth," more like dark-themed garage, punk/rock'n'roll, art punk, black metal, swamp rock, avant-garde, etc., but you might like them:

T.S.O.L.
The Wipers
Gun Club
Hoodoo Gurus
Satan's Cheerleaders
The Fiends
Wire
Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds
The Honeymoon Killers
Poison 13
The Gories (Mick Collins' band before the Dirtbombs)
Dwarves (Horror Stories or Lick It LPs)
Dead Moon
Destruction Unit
The Hex Dispensers
Lost Sounds
Suicide
Roky Erickson & the Aliens
The Horrors (from Cedar Rapids on In The Red Records, not the UK band)
The Hunches
The Blowtops
Mystery Girls
Television
Modey Lemon
The Monsters (The Lightning/Reverend Beat-Man's band!)
The Fuzztones
The Priests
New Salem Witch Hunters
The Nomads
Radio Birdman
The Nevermores
Rocket From the Tombs
The Original Sins
Demon's Claws
Cheater Slicks
Black Time
The Deadly Snakes
The Fall
The Screamers
Crime
Brian Eno
The Mirrors
The Daily Void
The Gris Gris
Subsonics
The Vipers
Ty Segall
Haunted George (ha!)
And you'd probably like the Black Lips, too, although you've probably already heard them. Try their earlier stuff, though.

And for '60s stuff, try the Monks, Sean Bonniwell's Music Machine, Love, the Seeds, 13th Floor Elevators, the Calico Wall, Electric Prunes, the Haunted, Can, the Velvet Underground, Zakary Thaks, Them, Stooges, Godz, Captain Beefheart, early (Syd Barrett-era) Pink Floyd, the Omens, Pebbles comps, and, yeah, ok, the Doors. Oh, and Screaming Jay Hawkins. ;)

I keep more or less that list handy whenever someone asks me if I like goth rock. I realize it's all over the place, but seriously, check some of them out if you haven't already. You might get sucked in!

And I really wouldn't challange Kopper on subject matters like what's a scene and what's a subculture. He knows more than Wikipedia.

Goth isn't just a scene, it's a way of life, hence, a subculture. Pretty much, a scene IS a subculture. If you're just talking about dressing in black, then you're talking about goth style, not subculture. And really, you don't want to be in that scene. It's just as bad as hanging out in a squatted house. Depressing. Johnny Paradox said:

When I say subculture, I mean I like to dress in black, I am being myself. :) Emo is dead anyway. SCENE is what you're reffering to haha.

kopper said:

Fuck the subculture. Goths are about as annoying as emo kids. Just dig the music and be yourself.

Johnny Paradox said:

Thanks guys, I am just getting into the "Goth" subculture and the new tunes will be welcome :)

Jody Reynolds! Endless Sleep is pretty gothic, isn't it. S.Law said:

jamie said:

More important I think, is building music on tradition with a proper foundation based on the theory of rock and roll archetypes from the 50s and 60s.

in that case, Jody Reynolds! anybody mention Christian Death? First album, the ones after are snoozers to me(tho they definately fit the depresso rock thing).

Kilslug!

jamie said:

More important I think, is building music on tradition with a proper foundation based on the theory of rock and roll archetypes from the 50s and 60s.

In Australia we had groups like The Birthday Party, Moodists, Scientists, who went to England and did alot of gigs with those kind of British Goth bands like Bauhaus, Siouxsie, Sisters of Mercy etc. Locally the Birthday Party kind of sound was popular with lots of groups in the early 80s, such as Grong Grong, and Box of Fish, and described with words like "grunge" and "swamp". That kind of Gun Club/Cramps kind of vibe also crosses over with the uk Psychobilly scene, and groups like Alien Sex Fiend, Bone Orchard, and Sunglasses after Dark were fairly Gothic but included on a Psychobilly compilation album. Some British Anarcho Punk groups also cross over into Gothic a bit too, Squatting Hippie/Punks into Hawkwind and Crass and occult, stone henge insence crap. And the "Gothic Subculture" probably comes from the New Romantic clubbing scene (yuck).

I don't think "Gothic" is a real genre as such, but is more of a dark vibe that you can overlay onto almost any music style. More important I think, is building music on tradition with a proper foundation based on the theory of rock and roll archetypes from the 50s and 60s.

United has done me right a couple times...Look for Specials to save $$$$. But, Musicol has done me right as well and I like their mastering in comparison. Both take about the same amount of time! Both are equally trustworthy, but follow their instructions carefully! Remember to master to vinyl specifications/frequencies to avoid major headaches and heartbreak!

"wear goggles"

I love how the company covers its arse from liabilities saying that you must be over 18 with a safety screen when smashing. With noone around in 20m in all directions.

I HAVE to wear a wig of messed up hair. I'm really not good at growing my own these days and people just don't seem to like it when I sing We Stand United with a receding hairline. Actually I wore it as a tribute to ? way back when but everyone around my scene said I should continue, so I did. Except when I opened for the Woggles. That just would have felt embarassing. kopper said:

Lame. This reminds me of fashion jean companies selling jeans with holes in the knees. What's next? Buying a wig of messed up hair? Just mess up your own damn hair!

the kids who play "guitar hero" and think they are actual musicians will love it!

links are still good on there-I'd recommend the Megaupload option.

DO NOT CLICK THE BIG "DOWNLOAD" BUTTON ON SHARBEE!!!! many tears might follow if you don't have decent antivirus protection.

Well, that's not a legitimate release. That's an old GaragePunk.com Forum Comp (not a physical CD)! There were hundreds of those. I have a bunch, but not that one (and I don't think the download is valid anymore, either). Did anyone grab that from Mikael when it was originally offered? For some reason I missed it... Rinjo Njori said:

There is a two disc set called songs we taught the detroit cobras-- I have never seen a physical copy but it has pretty much every song the Cobra's covered, here kopper said:

That is a great list. Basically, look for the original versions of all the songs the Detroit Cobras cover, and you're off to a good start.

Also, one of my favorite albums of modern soul would have to be the Now Time Delegation's LP (featuring the vocals of Lisa Kekaula of the BellRays). Black Joe Lewis is good, too (and he's playing in St. Louis next week). The screamin' Soul Preacher said:

Great great list Chessman !
Chessman said:

Well, some of these may be more 'proto-soul' then what you're after, but I still think they rate pretty high on the 'danceability' scale...

Lonnie Youngblood - African Twist pt.2
Smokey Johnson - Whip It Pts 1 & 2
Don Gardner - My Baby Likes To Boogaloo
Gino Washington - Come Monkey With Me
The Ideals - Go Go Gorilla
Eddie Kirk - The Hawg
James Brown - And I Do Just What I Want
Gary U.S. Bonds - I Wanna Holler
Otis Redding & The Pinetoppers - Shout Bama Lama
Dottie Campbell - He's About A Mover
Joe Tex - Ain't I A Mess
Jimmy Stokely & The Exiles - It's Alligator Time
Billy Lamont - Sweet Thing (w/h Hendrix on guit.)
Nathaniel Mayer - I Want Love And Affection (Not The House Of Correction)
J.C. Davis - The Chicken Scratch
Bo Diddley - Jo-Ann

Cheers,

Chessman

There is a two disc set called songs we taught the detroit cobras-- I have never seen a physical copy but it has pretty much every song the Cobra's covered, here kopper said:

That is a great list. Basically, look for the original versions of all the songs the Detroit Cobras cover, and you're off to a good start.

Also, one of my favorite albums of modern soul would have to be the Now Time Delegation's LP (featuring the vocals of Lisa Kekaula of the BellRays). Black Joe Lewis is good, too (and he's playing in St. Louis next week).

The screamin' Soul Preacher said:

Great great list Chessman !
Chessman said:

Well, some of these may be more 'proto-soul' then what you're after, but I still think they rate pretty high on the 'danceability' scale...

Lonnie Youngblood - African Twist pt.2
Smokey Johnson - Whip It Pts 1 & 2
Don Gardner - My Baby Likes To Boogaloo
Gino Washington - Come Monkey With Me
The Ideals - Go Go Gorilla
Eddie Kirk - The Hawg
James Brown - And I Do Just What I Want
Gary U.S. Bonds - I Wanna Holler
Otis Redding & The Pinetoppers - Shout Bama Lama
Dottie Campbell - He's About A Mover
Joe Tex - Ain't I A Mess
Jimmy Stokely & The Exiles - It's Alligator Time
Billy Lamont - Sweet Thing (w/h Hendrix on guit.)
Nathaniel Mayer - I Want Love And Affection (Not The House Of Correction)
J.C. Davis - The Chicken Scratch
Bo Diddley - Jo-Ann

Cheers,

Chessman

I've pretty much said this before in other "how do you play this" threads, but if you know how to play bass, the root note is usually the chord that is being played. The G, B flat, C and D are also the same notes that the bass player is mostly hitting. I usually learn garage songs by playing the bass notes along with the records (or CDs) and then switch to full chords once I've figured it out.

Cool, they were one of the 1st punk bands I ever saw play.