Anyway let me tell you what I think...I'm disregarding everything else said to this point not out of disrespect, but so I can say how I feel without somebody saying "We already said that". I think Garage started without knowing it started. I think it goes as far back as the 50's with teenage bands doing their thang. I relate it to obscure Rock & Roll first and foremost. Ya know (now getting into the definition of Rock & Roll) Loud, Wild, Fast, Dance-able, all that...but more edgy, more amateur,simpler, and more primitive. Also, Metal & most Psychedelia are NOT Rock & Roll to me. I think it's also understood that it can creep into other actual genre's as well. Case in point, there were many white teen bands in the 60's playing soul with that Garage edge to it. I'd still call that Garage. Some bands in '67 started adding psychedelic effects, imagery and, other stuff to spice up their crude recordings. I mean hell, I don't know how many people collect Psych albums here, but the Mystic Siva album from 1970 (?) is VERY primitive, but has shades of hardrock. Is that Garage? Who knows? It would automatically break my own set rules for Rock & Roll. Therefore, it would NOT be Garage...but the fidelity and recording job sure sounds it! All I know is...like Joey said...you know it when you hear it. I knew it when I heard it 4 years ago. And I know it now. Sometimes a car commercial will play a song I really dig...and I say to myself "That sounds like Garage to me!" Some will argue that the obscurity of something determines whether or not something is Garage...but I think it's much deeper than that.

kopper attacked us and said "you either get it or you dont" the smugness of that remark is not cool. it basically says "you must be stupid if you don't get it like i do" and that's ALL it says. kind of a kindergarten bully response. we have personal opinions on the subject but that is about all that is possible with a genre that means completely different things to many people. we were interested in what the people here thought. why is that such a difficult thing to understand? better yet why the fuck would that infuriate people? we thought this was a discussion group. we have not had "issues" with people's responses. we have had interest in what they are saying. again this seems a capitol crime.

joey fuckup said:

What I don't understand is, you say you have no knowledge on the subject, yet you told me that you weren't strangers to the genre. And from what I've seen in this thread, you (or all of you) have had issues with many of the responses that the Hideout members have been giving you. Why do you continue to dissect all these responses? All you're doing is pissing people off. Your claims are bogus, you say one thing, then another. I could see this discussion started by somebody who truly didn't know much about garage rock 'n' roll, but you've said you weren't strangers to it. So which is it???

DEPRAVOS DE LA MOUR said:

k

opper we have no knowledge. only questions. you either get it or you don't is about as smug as it gets. it means nothing. it says nothing. it is an insipid cliche. it is a weak finger.
by the way you don't have to delete nasty comments for our sake. We promise not to reply to them and start up shit.
kopper said:

Dude, Mr. Fuckup said it best, you either get it or you don't. You and whoever the hell else you are speaking for. Try giving me that "only we know when we are satisfied" line again... CLASSIC!

I'm still waiting for you to tell us what YOU think "garage music" is.

DEPRAVOS DE LA MOUR said:

kopper . amazing! and YOU are running the asylum. how could a rational intelligent person not  understand why people would want to know what other people think about this music. you really don't see any point in discussing it? that is an astounding admission.

 every fucking person here has a different take on it. you don't want to know about that. please explain why that is of no interest to you.

 

  WE are too weird for you? maybe this should be called the CONSERVATIVE GARAGE PUNK HIDEOUT.

 

  by the way WE have nothing but respect for your achievement here. it is by far the best band oriented site there is. WE also understand that would not have been possible without a single vision. YOUR vision. that don't mean WE agree with everything you do or think. why would you want that? YOU definitely do not know it all anymore than WE do.

 

 

    kopper said:

And why do you keep saying "we"? Are there more than one person's hands typing on your keyboard? Your posts are written as if you're speaking for some group of people or secret society. It's weird. This whole thread has been a great example of ridiculousness. It's really gone nowhere. I don't understand why you keep prodding people and why you need to know what "garage music" means to other people... what does it matter? It's what it means to YOURSELF (yourselves?) that counts. Why not tell us what YOU think it is?

What I don't understand is, you say you have no knowledge on the subject, yet you told me that you weren't strangers to the genre. And from what I've seen in this thread, you (or all of you) have had issues with many of the responses that the Hideout members have been giving you. Why do you continue to dissect all these responses? All you're doing is pissing people off. Your claims are bogus, you say one thing, then another. I could see this discussion started by somebody who truly didn't know much about garage rock 'n' roll, but you've said you weren't strangers to it. So which is it???

DEPRAVOS DE LA MOUR said:

k

opper we have no knowledge. only questions. you either get it or you don't is about as smug as it gets. it means nothing. it says nothing. it is an insipid cliche. it is a weak finger.
by the way you don't have to delete nasty comments for our sake. We promise not to reply to them and start up shit.
kopper said:

Dude, Mr. Fuckup said it best, you either get it or you don't. You and whoever the hell else you are speaking for. Try giving me that "only we know when we are satisfied" line again... CLASSIC!

I'm still waiting for you to tell us what YOU think "garage music" is.

DEPRAVOS DE LA MOUR said:

kopper . amazing! and YOU are running the asylum. how could a rational intelligent person not  understand why people would want to know what other people think about this music. you really don't see any point in discussing it? that is an astounding admission.

 every fucking person here has a different take on it. you don't want to know about that. please explain why that is of no interest to you.

 

  WE are too weird for you? maybe this should be called the CONSERVATIVE GARAGE PUNK HIDEOUT.

 

  by the way WE have nothing but respect for your achievement here. it is by far the best band oriented site there is. WE also understand that would not have been possible without a single vision. YOUR vision. that don't mean WE agree with everything you do or think. why would you want that? YOU definitely do not know it all anymore than WE do.

 

 

    kopper said:

And why do you keep saying "we"? Are there more than one person's hands typing on your keyboard? Your posts are written as if you're speaking for some group of people or secret society. It's weird. This whole thread has been a great example of ridiculousness. It's really gone nowhere. I don't understand why you keep prodding people and why you need to know what "garage music" means to other people... what does it matter? It's what it means to YOURSELF (yourselves?) that counts. Why not tell us what YOU think it is?

four. we are a band. click on the stinkin picture (todd the guitarist) and listen to our sweet sounds.

Mole said:

How many of you are there?

How many of you are there?

phooey! we thought it was gonna be nasty because we thought that Kopper deleted it in deference to our sensitive natures. we like that response also.

stinkyben said:

ha ha dude, i deleted my comment because i realised i,d not finished reading the discussion was just gonna let y know my take on garage music!

*No frills,gritty,raw music that takes influences from blues,rock n roll,funk,folk n whatever else an artist wants to throw in and when you listen to it feels real!

 

why you'd think/want it to of been a nasty nasty comment  i dono! thats just a bit  weird 

ha ha dude, i deleted my comment because i realised i,d not finished reading the discussion was just gonna let y know my take on garage music!

*No frills,gritty,raw music that takes influences from blues,rock n roll,funk,folk n whatever else an artist wants to throw in and when you listen to it feels real!

why you'd think/want it to of been a nasty nasty comment  i dono! thats just a bit  weird 

people who don't ask questions often wind up in very bad places. read a history book. we were not dissing shaw. AGAIN!!! just fucking ASKING if  that was indeed his claim. we did not know he made THAT claim. thank you for TELLING us and sharing your knowledge. we do not have any differing knowledge about who coined the phrase. forgive us for being a bit taken aback by that claim. it was new to us.
TK said:

thats exactly what he said. and if you know what he was responsible for, then you know he was telling the truth, too, rest his soul.

if it werent for guys like greg shaw, wed probably all be listening to disco or some shit. do you want us to define that for you, too?

look, those of us who "get it" as joey sez dont need to go around asking each other what "garage" means to us. can you imagine the looks youd get it you went to a gig somewhere and went around asking people what garage music meant to them? youd probably get laughed out of the freakin room.

DEPRAVOS DE LA MOUR said:

so greg shaw says he invented the term?

k

opper we have no knowledge. only questions. you either get it or you don't is about as smug as it gets. it means nothing. it says nothing. it is an insipid cliche. it is a weak finger.
by the way you don't have to delete nasty comments for our sake. We promise not to reply to them and start up shit.
kopper said:

Dude, Mr. Fuckup said it best, you either get it or you don't. You and whoever the hell else you are speaking for. Try giving me that "only we know when we are satisfied" line again... CLASSIC!

I'm still waiting for you to tell us what YOU think "garage music" is.

DEPRAVOS DE LA MOUR said:

kopper . amazing! and YOU are running the asylum. how could a rational intelligent person not  understand why people would want to know what other people think about this music. you really don't see any point in discussing it? that is an astounding admission.

 every fucking person here has a different take on it. you don't want to know about that. please explain why that is of no interest to you.

 

  WE are too weird for you? maybe this should be called the CONSERVATIVE GARAGE PUNK HIDEOUT.

 

  by the way WE have nothing but respect for your achievement here. it is by far the best band oriented site there is. WE also understand that would not have been possible without a single vision. YOUR vision. that don't mean WE agree with everything you do or think. why would you want that? YOU definitely do not know it all anymore than WE do.

 

 

    kopper said:

And why do you keep saying "we"? Are there more than one person's hands typing on your keyboard? Your posts are written as if you're speaking for some group of people or secret society. It's weird. This whole thread has been a great example of ridiculousness. It's really gone nowhere. I don't understand why you keep prodding people and why you need to know what "garage music" means to other people... what does it matter? It's what it means to YOURSELF (yourselves?) that counts. Why not tell us what YOU think it is?

thats exactly what he said. and if you know what he was responsible for, then you know he was telling the truth, too, rest his soul.

if it werent for guys like greg shaw, wed probably all be listening to disco or some shit. do you want us to define that for you, too?

look, those of us who "get it" as joey sez dont need to go around asking each other what "garage" means to us. can you imagine the looks youd get it you went to a gig somewhere and went around asking people what garage music meant to them? youd probably get laughed out of the freakin room.

DEPRAVOS DE LA MOUR said:

so greg shaw says he invented the term?

Dude, Mr. Fuckup said it best, you either get it or you don't. You and whoever the hell else you are speaking for. Try giving me that "only we know when we are satisfied" line again... CLASSIC!

I'm still waiting for you to tell us what YOU think "garage music" is.

DEPRAVOS DE LA MOUR said:

kopper . amazing! and YOU are running the asylum. how could a rational intelligent person not  understand why people would want to know what other people think about this music. you really don't see any point in discussing it? that is an astounding admission.

 every fucking person here has a different take on it. you don't want to know about that. please explain why that is of no interest to you.

 

  WE are too weird for you? maybe this should be called the CONSERVATIVE GARAGE PUNK HIDEOUT.

 

  by the way WE have nothing but respect for your achievement here. it is by far the best band oriented site there is. WE also understand that would not have been possible without a single vision. YOUR vision. that don't mean WE agree with everything you do or think. why would you want that? YOU definitely do not know it all anymore than WE do.

 

 

    kopper said:

And why do you keep saying "we"? Are there more than one person's hands typing on your keyboard? Your posts are written as if you're speaking for some group of people or secret society. It's weird. This whole thread has been a great example of ridiculousness. It's really gone nowhere. I don't understand why you keep prodding people and why you need to know what "garage music" means to other people... what does it matter? It's what it means to YOURSELF (yourselves?) that counts. Why not tell us what YOU think it is?

kopper . amazing! and YOU are running the asylum. how could a rational intelligent person not  understand why people would want to know what other people think about this music. you really don't see any point in discussing it? that is an astounding admission.

 every fucking person here has a different take on it. you don't want to know about that. please explain why that is of no interest to you.

  WE are too weird for you? maybe this should be called the CONSERVATIVE GARAGE PUNK HIDEOUT.

  by the way WE have nothing but respect for your achievement here. it is by far the best band oriented site there is. WE also understand that would not have been possible without a single vision. YOUR vision. that don't mean WE agree with everything you do or think. why would you want that? YOU definitely do not know it all anymore than WE do.

    kopper said:

And why do you keep saying "we"? Are there more than one person's hands typing on your keyboard? Your posts are written as if you're speaking for some group of people or secret society. It's weird. This whole thread has been a great example of ridiculousness. It's really gone nowhere. I don't understand why you keep prodding people and why you need to know what "garage music" means to other people... what does it matter? It's what it means to YOURSELF (yourselves?) that counts. Why not tell us what YOU think it is?

And why do you keep saying "we"? Are there more than one person's hands typing on your keyboard? Your posts are written as if you're speaking for some group of people or secret society, or maybe all of those voices in your head. It's weird. This whole thread has been a great example of ridiculousness. It's really gone nowhere. I don't understand why you keep prodding people and why you need to know what "garage music" means to other people... what does it matter? It's what it means to YOURSELF (yourselves?) that counts. Why not tell us what YOU think it is?

you are right. the question was poorly worded and definitely not clear.  sorry and just forget  the whole thing. we apologize for wasting everyone's time.

joey fuckup said:

Well, maybe you should have titled this discussion "How would you guys define garage"? You said you were not looking for a definition, yet your discussion header clearly was "What is garage music?" Um, so isn't that an invite for people to reply with "definitions"?

DEPRAVOS DE LA MOUR said:

mr fuckup. we were not looking for a definition of garage  music. we are not newcomers to it. as we stated 40 times we are just interested in hearing other peoples "personal" meanings of the term. you can get into some very nasty arguments about what constitutes "real" garage versus "hipster" garage etc ad infinitum. that isn't what we wanted to do. we wanted to find out what people personally think of when the term garage rock is brought up. we did not want to argue. WE JUST WANTED TO LISTEN TO OTHER PEOPLES IDEAS!!!! that seems to be a really fucking radical concept around here. don't tell us we should be satisfied with hearing a few ideas. only we know when we are satisfied.

joey fuckup said:

I think you've been pointed in the right direction on where to find "garage" (um, here on the Hideout, the comps, many of the bands on here). Garage can be far reaching on musical borders, so just go listen and see if that gives you a clue. Honestly, with garage (in my opinion), you either "get it" or you don't. Just like a lot of people I am around every day, they don't "get it", and they never will. Instead of trying to "define" and dissecting what garage is, just go see if you "get it". Why is it so important that you need a definition for the term? Just go listen to the music and enjoy it...It really isn't that complicated...

Well, maybe you should have titled this discussion "How would you guys define garage"? You said you were not looking for a definition, yet your discussion header clearly was "What is garage music?" Um, so isn't that an invite for people to reply with "definitions"?

DEPRAVOS DE LA MOUR said:

mr fuckup. we were not looking for a definition of garage  music. we are not newcomers to it. as we stated 40 times we are just interested in hearing other peoples "personal" meanings of the term. you can get into some very nasty arguments about what constitutes "real" garage versus "hipster" garage etc ad infinitum. that isn't what we wanted to do. we wanted to find out what people personally think of when the term garage rock is brought up. we did not want to argue. WE JUST WANTED TO LISTEN TO OTHER PEOPLES IDEAS!!!! that seems to be a really fucking radical concept around here. don't tell us we should be satisfied with hearing a few ideas. only we know when we are satisfied.

joey fuckup said:

I think you've been pointed in the right direction on where to find "garage" (um, here on the Hideout, the comps, many of the bands on here). Garage can be far reaching on musical borders, so just go listen and see if that gives you a clue. Honestly, with garage (in my opinion), you either "get it" or you don't. Just like a lot of people I am around every day, they don't "get it", and they never will. Instead of trying to "define" and dissecting what garage is, just go see if you "get it". Why is it so important that you need a definition for the term? Just go listen to the music and enjoy it...It really isn't that complicated...

mr fuckup. we were not looking for a definition of garage  music. we are not newcomers to it. as we stated 40 times we are just interested in hearing other peoples "personal" meanings of the term. you can get into some very nasty arguments about what constitutes "real" garage versus "hipster" garage etc ad infinitum. that isn't what we wanted to do. we wanted to find out what people personally think of when the term garage rock is brought up. we did not want to argue. WE JUST WANTED TO LISTEN TO OTHER PEOPLES IDEAS!!!! that seems to be a really fucking radical concept around here. don't tell us we should be satisfied with hearing a few ideas. only we know when we are satisfied.

joey fuckup said:

I think you've been pointed in the right direction on where to find "garage" (um, here on the Hideout, the comps, many of the bands on here). Garage can be far reaching on musical borders, so just go listen and see if that gives you a clue. Honestly, with garage (in my opinion), you either "get it" or you don't. Just like a lot of people I am around every day, they don't "get it", and they never will. Instead of trying to "define" and dissecting what garage is, just go see if you "get it". Why is it so important that you need a definition for the term? Just go listen to the music and enjoy it...It really isn't that complicated...

I think you've been pointed in the right direction on where to find "garage" (um, here on the Hideout, the comps, many of the bands on here). Garage can be far reaching on musical borders, so just go listen and see if that gives you a clue. Honestly, with garage (in my opinion), you either "get it" or you don't. Just like a lot of people I am around every day, they don't "get it", and they never will. Instead of trying to "define" and dissecting what garage is, just go see if you "get it". Why is it so important that you need a definition for the term? Just go listen to the music and enjoy it...It really isn't that complicated...

60s punk is nice. but it would seem to describe only part of the genre.

don't you think the term rock and roll is pretty meaningless today unless you attach a long train of adjectives?

so greg shaw says he invented the term?

TK said:

here's where the term originated (from a Greg Shaw interview). maybe this will help:

This is tricky, because since the late '50s at least one heard about musicians and bands who practiced in garages in the suburbs. In the '80s, metal bands thought they came from the garage. Maybe some of them still do. Then of course there are all the insane new meanings that have been attached to the word by house music and (more recently) world music folks.

Nevertheless, there was a moment in history when I sat down and had a conversation with myself. Guys like me and Lenny and Lester etc had been talking about "punk" in terms of '60s bands since Dave Marsh coined the usage in his Question Mark article in Creem in 1969 (I'm glad that was finally settled!). But by 1976 it was very clear that the word "punk" was going to start meaning something else to a whole lotta people, and as I was actively writing about and working with "'60s punk rock" I felt it would be better to have a less confusing monicker. I decided on "garage rock" and I think I even wrote an essay or a liner note or something explaining why. Thenceforth I used it exclusively in all my efforts.

Of course there are no rules in language. You can say "'60s garage punk" or even "'60s punk" and most people now will know what you mean. But remember that in 1976 there were no Pebbles albums yet, no revival bands, no body of research. All we had was Nuggets, those "artyfacts from the first psychedelic era". So for its time, it was a distinction I felt was useful.

I don't know who if anyone picked up this usage; it was mainly for my convenience, as a historian and also as a marketer of niche products. For all I know a hundred other people had the same soliloquy on the same afternoon. But I remember it clearly.

And that's all I can tell you!

so garage is basically '60s punk. '60s punk was rock and roll bashed out by kids in their parents' garages and basements. it has a certain distinctive sound to it, rawness, amateur, primitive, loud. you get fuzz, distortion, reverb, organ (vox, farfisa, hammond, whatever) plus wild lyrics & vocals. it's the same today. no, it's not as easily "defined" as reggae because it includes a lot of different influences and styles and can sound very different from band to band, but the roots are always there. the beat, the instrumentation, the rawness, etc. it's just rock and roll.

here's where the term originated (from a Greg Shaw interview). maybe this will help:

This is tricky, because since the late '50s at least one heard about musicians and bands who practiced in garages in the suburbs. In the '80s, metal bands thought they came from the garage. Maybe some of them still do. Then of course there are all the insane new meanings that have been attached to the word by house music and (more recently) world music folks.

Nevertheless, there was a moment in history when I sat down and had a conversation with myself. Guys like me and Lenny and Lester etc had been talking about "punk" in terms of '60s bands since Dave Marsh coined the usage in his Question Mark article in Creem in 1969 (I'm glad that was finally settled!). But by 1976 it was very clear that the word "punk" was going to start meaning something else to a whole lotta people, and as I was actively writing about and working with "'60s punk rock" I felt it would be better to have a less confusing monicker. I decided on "garage rock" and I think I even wrote an essay or a liner note or something explaining why. Thenceforth I used it exclusively in all my efforts.

Of course there are no rules in language. You can say "'60s garage punk" or even "'60s punk" and most people now will know what you mean. But remember that in 1976 there were no Pebbles albums yet, no revival bands, no body of research. All we had was Nuggets, those "artyfacts from the first psychedelic era". So for its time, it was a distinction I felt was useful.

I don't know who if anyone picked up this usage; it was mainly for my convenience, as a historian and also as a marketer of niche products. For all I know a hundred other people had the same soliloquy on the same afternoon. But I remember it clearly.

And that's all I can tell you!

Eliza Carthy last Thursday, July last Saturday. Fuzztones/Gravedigger Five/Higher State this Friday!!

   Saw Milt Trenier , last night , at the release party for "Flying Saucers Rock'n'Roll - Best of Roctober Magazine" (Kind of like "The Joy of Sex", you might think it's dated , but you still might learn something.). He's now 81 years old , and still the master showman. The book contains my piece on The Treniers , which is where Rockn'Roll began , make no mistake. Then , I flew outta there to go see The Damned's recital of "Damned Damned Damned" and "The Black Album". This ridiculously early show was well underway when I arrived. In fact , they had almost finished performing their first album , the reason I went in the first place !

Surely , I thought , they'd close the show by playing the early stuff , but , no..... What I did hear sounded right on the money , despite WAY too much bass in the mix (What is this obsession with bass , anyway?) , and Dave Vanian's vocals turned down too low. "1970 (I Feel Allright") "was a highlight , The Captain summoning Ron Asheton's spirit successfully. The band took a break (The DJs played "Do It'' by The Pink Fairies , tho' I heard they were playing BOSTON , earlier.), and came back to do "The Black Album" , which contains great rockers like "Drinking About My Baby" , "Hit or Miss" and that one song that sounds like Killing Joke , BUT the Prog plodded on for WAY too long. I know this is some peoples' favorite Damned album , but , one of these tunes went on for nearly 15 minutes. I was kvetching because I'd missed most of what I came there for (Tho' I had no objection to hearing both.).

The encore - Eloise , Love Song , and I don't remember what else. My friend and I were calling out for the Garage covers they did as Naz Nomad and The Nightmares , "Action Woman" , "Pushin' Too Hard" , whatever.....     Would I recommend you see 'em on this tour ? Hell , yes , despite the somewhat odd pairing , but , get there ridiculously early.

Yeah, they really killed it. Great live band.

Rufus , That's a great name. Great photo , too.

Rufus F. said:

Les Breastfeeders from Quebec.

HoloDeck , Wow. The Fireside in it's "Heyday". I just walked by there for the first time in years. It's now a working Bowling Alley , which it was'nt , about a year after they started having bands , there. It used to be , you could bowl while the bands were playing. IF they felt like turning the shit on. Once , we waited 2 hours. It's a pretty good video , you get to see The Fireside in all it's splendor....even the ladies' room. I don't know why whoever got IT so neat and clean could'nt put on a gasmask and spray some detergent and several cans of Lysol in the men's room on occasion. I know it's all "Punk Rock " and stuff , but , for all the infamy CBGB's garnered in their day for stankodorous restrooms , The Fireside's men's room , and Ronnies , in general had 'em beat by a New York Mile. Anyway , I think I saw myself , here. Maybe I was at this show. It sure as Hell was'nt SXSW , as noted. That'd be 1000 miles south . Good joke , tho'.

I first got into his stuff with the Bad Times LP, so that's got a special place in my heart. But I'd have to go with the Reatards over the solo stuff. The Lost Sounds is pretty killer too.