What do you think of the whole 'sell out' thing, when a band gets too big for DIY to still be possible? For me Clash, the Ramones, Sex Pistols were all punk but at some point whatever 'punk' was has gotten badly lost that you can now (for years) buy Tshirts with these bands on at Top Man.

John Paul Jackson said:

I think of punk more as a DIY attitude, not a musical style.  And there's nothing wrong with ELO and Queen!

Andyuzz said:

I've always considered them punk - maybe not 'musically' later on but the lyrics and attitude were always anti-establishment and uncompromising, which surely is the epitome of punk.

I think of punk more as a DIY attitude, not a musical style.  And there's nothing wrong with ELO and Queen!

amen!

Old School Hero said:

I've always felt the way you do, Ixnayray. I believe the term punk can be used to define an attitude of anti establishment and being yourself.. and even of certain musical styles that aren't Punk. Many people associate 60's Garage music with Punk these days in my experience...it's not true Punk but it's got the attitude and wickedness. Some people consider the early Rolling Stones Punk -shrug-. Some people even consider Country / Rockabilly Music to have a Punky-ness about it (And I agree.) Anyway, to consider The Clash as Punk strictly based on the sound of their music would be wrong (except the first album which you noted)...but the attitude of the music and the way they carry themselves..sure. I also feel that at least early Punk and pure Rock 'n Roll go hand in hand..I'd consider early Punk simply a term for a new era for pure Rock 'n Roll. It's got a lot of similarities..most notably it's simplicity..which is a key proponent of pure Rock 'n Roll in my eyes.

Agreed. No question about it, ixnayray.

I've always felt the way you do, Ixnayray. I believe the term punk can be used to define an attitude of anti establishment and being yourself.. and even of certain musical styles that aren't Punk. Many people associate 60's Garage music with Punk these days in my experience...it's not true Punk but it's got the attitude and wickedness. Some people consider the early Rolling Stones Punk -shrug-. Some people even consider Country / Rockabilly Music to have a Punky-ness about it (And I agree.) Anyway, to consider The Clash as Punk strictly based on the sound of their music would be wrong (except the first album which you noted)...but the attitude of the music and the way they carry themselves..sure. I also feel that at least early Punk and pure Rock 'n Roll go hand in hand..I'd consider early Punk simply a term for a new era for pure Rock 'n Roll. It's got a lot of similarities..most notably it's simplicity..which is a key proponent of pure Rock 'n Roll in my eyes.

You said it brother.  Feels like an Arbys night, err I mean Global-a-go-go night for the ride home from work.

Agreed, Trashman. I prefer Global A-Go-Go and Streetcore personally but yeah, I'd say the Mescalero's projects were pretty damn special.

trashman said:

Since I see the discussion veering a little away from the original question at hand, I feel like taking the liberty to interject that Joe's first two albums with the Mescaleros - Rock Art and the X-ray Style and Global-a-go-go, are incredibly special albums.  If people out there haven't taken the time to listen - do yourself a personal service.  I listen to those albums repeatedly, probably more than any other recording I own.  - Ragga, Bhangra, two-step Tanga

Since I see the discussion veering a little away from the original question at hand, I feel like taking the liberty to interject that Joe's first two albums with the Mescaleros - Rock Art and the X-ray Style and Global-a-go-go, are incredibly special albums.  If people out there haven't taken the time to listen - do yourself a personal service.  I listen to those albums repeatedly, probably more than any other recording I own.  - Ragga, Bhangra, two-step Tanga   

duke cottonhead said:

JOE STRUMMER certainly had more spunk than ANYONE contributing to these columns. gentlemen goodnight, and may joe s ghost guide your souls. he cast a long shadow!

Well Paul Simenon was the only non-musician when The Clash started out... I think he was a pretty competent bass player by the end and has gone on to do other music projects [Havana 3am, The Good, The Bad & The Queen]. Not sure if being a non-musician makes you 'punk' either. In fact, i'm not sure I even like the term. It means absolutely nothing to me and I don't think it describes the music I listen too... But that's a whole different discussion!!

Pennygate? Yeah, that's about 30 minutes or so from where I live... Weird!

duke cottonhead said:

"joe strummer was not the only musician"

yeah, and paul simenon was the only non-musician, therefore the only real punk-rocker in the clash. (in this old wolf's  humble opinion.loved your broadcast, by the way. did i tell you my sister lives in pennygate, norfolk?)

"joe strummer was not the only musician"

yeah, and paul simenon was the only non-musician, therefore the only real punk-rocker in the clash. (in this old wolf's  humble opinion.loved your broadcast, by the way. did i tell you my sister lives in pennygate, norfolk?)

We're talking about The Clash.

'Joe Strummer was not the only musician.'

it ain't the talk, it's the walk. joe strummer's brother was the ultimate free spirit/rebel. punk.

definition:

1896, "inferior, bad," also "something worthless," earlier "rotten wood used as tinder" (1680s), probably from Delaware (Algonquian) ponk, lit. "dust, powder, ashes;" but Gaelic spong "tinder" also has been suggested (cf. spunk "touchwood, tinder," 1580s). Meaning "Chinese incense" is from 1870.

"worthless person" (especially a young hoodlum), 1917, probably from punk kid "criminal's apprentice," underworld slang first attested 1904 (with overtones of "catamite"). Ultimately from punk "prostitute, harlot, strumpet," first recorded 1590s, of unknown origin. For sense shift from "harlot" to "homosexual," cf. gay. By 1923 used generally for "young boy, inexperienced person" (originally in show business, e.g. punk day, circus slang from 1930, "day when children are admitted free"). The verb meaning "to back out of" is from 1920. The "young criminal" sense is no doubt the inspiration in punk rock first attested 1971 (in a Dave Marsh article in "Creem"), popularized 1976.

JOE STRUMMER certainly had more spunk than ANYONE contributing to these columns. gentlemen goodnight, and may joe s ghost guide your souls. he cast a long shadow!

'Give Em Enough Rope' was a little glossier than the first but I don't know what to call it other than punk (maybe powerpop). I also think it was a great album, minus a couple of tracks. 'All the Young Punks' is my anthem.

The Clash are much revered in this neck of the woods, but we don't buy it really.... I think your synopsis of their albums if fair. It became manufactured record industry fodder very quickly, but then starving musicians have to pay the rent eh? Seems that once a member of a band dies they become a saint.... if you don't like me you call me a jack weasel (I just heard this as a term of derision on the Louis Theroux show on the BBC with him interviewing homophobic, anti Semitic Christians in Kansas. Shocking!)

"You're frying in fat, You dirty Rat!

Pay to play? it ain't all that.

Fill your gash with pie and mash.

Dress like you wanna be in the Clash!"

from what comes next - anarchistwood

Johnny Ramone was right :) Live they were the greatest 2 bands to walk the earth

I've been into Miss Chain and the Broken Heels from Italy and Crusaders of Love from France lately.

I'm selling my power pop/garage collection over the next couple months on ebay.. 30 years of collecting with some real cool stuff.. 100's of items and I add items every week so bookmark my ebay page.  search for seller name: devingeorgematz

Great choice ... I have four of their albums and all of them are good ... I'd like to add two bands to the mix:  The Spinning Jennies and the Well Wishers

kopper said:

Don't forget the Barracudas!

No Bunny!!!

the exploding hearts, I like them, I'm not sure but I might of heard the nerves. I like the Hearts very much.

This is Hey! Charger. We were around in the mid-90's and was me (Al Creed) on guitar and vocals  and Bill Gibson on bass/vocals (eastern dark, new christs, lemonheads .. and hundreds more!!) and pete kelly from the New Christs. We never played much but loved our power-pop ... anyway hope youse enjoy it.

This is rad. Can't wait til the release. I'd love to get on the next comp.

indianagun.bandcamp.com

I saw JJR live recently in Zürich it was a great gig. At the gig i realised i remembered two of the guys in the band from the from the old Alice in Wonderland/Gossips days in London as Thee Hypnotics, am i wrong or was that 25 years ago LOL!
Great to see that are doing so well, playing big shows with the Stooges must be a dream come true :)

Wow, great site! Thanks for the link. Found it!